Minelab's Full Response: Is The Minelab Manticore 50% More Powerful Than The Equinox?

I just saw the video, yay. They didn't prove Merrill was wrong on anything he said in the first video, but they did clarify that all of the Manticore claims are compared to the 800 series. Here are my thoughts about what was covered in the video. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Let me start with the answer that Minelab gave to question #2 about why they listed the same output power of 1 watt (<-30dB) for all of their models. Let's start with the middle sentence. "A metal detector produces a low-frequency reactive magnetic field which is different from the low-frequency radiated RF (radio frequencies) energy that the FCC monitors." They're trying to convince you that these are somehow different. They are two aspects present in all transmitted RF signals. You cannot have one without the other. One creates the other, these are like the two sides of the same zinc penny. Unfortunately, you cannot quantify the reactive magnetic field directly from the RF output energy. these two are related but the ratio between them isn't 1-to-1. If you were to climb a radio transmitter tower and place a chunk of metal near the antenna while it was transmitting, you would immediately know that it is outputting massive reactive magnetic power as well as the RF energy that is carrying the music. That chunk of metal would become very warm and you probably wouldn't need that vasectomy anymore. Back to the top sentence. "The power levels in the graphic (their power chart) refer to radiated limits, not the actual power used by our metal detectors to energize targets." As I explained in the previous answer, the RF output and the reactive magnetic field are connected at the hip. You can want to increase the magnetic power all you want, but as you increase this portion the RF output will also increase. Even modern MRI equipment uses high-frequency RF to produce the needed strong magnetic energy to see through flesh and muscle. The final sentence. "Therefore, this graphic (their power chart) is not useful to compare the performance of metal detectors." This is kind of true and kind of false. Even though the RF portion of the transmitted signal is quantified using the FCC regulations, the usable reactive magnetic energy getting into the ground depends upon multiple variables such as the engineered circuit design, components used, coil matching, and even the soil conditions. The RF output can be used as a guideline for comparison between different makes and models since the RF to reactive magnetic energy will be similar. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I would like to recap question #1 about if there is an output power cap placed by the FCC and the response by Minelab. "Yes, all products (including metal detectors) must abide by FCC limits. The FCC is concerned primarily with limiting a product's maximum radiated power which is liable to interfere with the correct operation of nearby equipment." This is generally at very high frequencies (>1MHz) which are far above the operating frequencies of a metal detector (<100kHz). The Minelab FCC statements are intended to facilitate the importation of the product into different countries and do not have any significance to metal detector performance." I am sure that each country has similar hurdles that must be met before it is allowed to be sold there. The FCC is primarily concerned about the RF aspect that can interfere with neighboring electronics. Most transmitters carry information that has been embedded into a carrier frequency such as radio or television broadcasts. These carrier frequencies are found in very high-frequency bands. These bands are earmarked by the FCC and each band specifies who can transmit in that region. Some bands are specific for police and emergency, others for cell phones, TV, radios (AM & FM), ham operators, walkie-talkies, etc. The FCC isn't as interested in the low-frequency RF signals used by all metal detectors because low-frequency RF transmitters aren't suited for long-range transmissions. Although these detectors are transmitting near the 1-watt threshold, metal detectors use these low-frequency RF transmissions to create the needed magnetic fields. These magnetic fields are used to penetrate the ground and excite eddy currents in nearby metals and minerals. they claim these FCC limitations do not have any significance in the performance. I guarantee that if baseball rules allowed heavier bats long-distance records would suddenly increase. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Now allow me to talk about question #3 and Minelab's response to the claim of delivering 50% more power into the ground. "Manticore delivers 50% more electrical power to the coil transmitter compared to the Equinox (800) series. This results in a larger magnetic field that surrounds the coil and couples with any metal targets, making them easier to detect at depth." First of all, they have declared that the 50% more power is only compared to the Equinox-800 series. I didn't see that anywhere in Manticore's brochures. Let's compare the transmitter on the Manticore and that of the old Nox-800 series: They added the new lower 2.5kHz signal to the Mutlti-IQ mix of frequencies. Adding this lower frequency means they needed to increase the power to the coil since lower frequencies require much more power to transmit. Remember when the 800 did its second update and added the 3.7kHz frequency (they called it 4kHz)? It appears that this must have been tapping the extent that the existing circuitry could handle or they would have simply made another update to include this new 2.5kHz signal. The only way for Minelab to add this most important lower frequency was to redesign the control board. They needed to increase the power handling capabilities in the transmitter circuitry. Even though they are still delivering the same amount of RF output power (1 watt) because the frequencies involved include a new very low frequency the power needed to transmit has to be increased to the output coil. As he explained, this increase in power to the coil doesn't mean 50% more depth, all it means is you will gain the extra depth afforded by the new low 2.5kHz signal (only if you are in Multi-IQ mode). When asked about how the Manticore compares to the CTX-3030 he said it's comparable. The CTX-3030 has more power to the coil compared to the Manticore due to the fact that it transmits an even lower 1.3 kHz frequency. But since the CTX-3030 doesn't have the new higher technology in the receiver section that's part of the new Manticore (so it was safe to say that these two machines are comparable). The ending of Minelab's answer. "This is apparent when the detector is limited by EMF (electromagnetic interference). You will notice that the Manticore can target better in these environments." This answer isn't related to the transmitting features, this is entirely about the receiver upgrades and how the engineers have overcome many obstacles that the average user never has to worry about. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Points of interest: They included a new larger capacity battery to allow the user similar detecting hours between recharges that we grew to love with the Nox-800. The power requirements have increased compared to the old series with the added lower frequency, flashlight, vibrating handle, increased screen capabilities, and a higher level of computing power necessary for the receiver section. The battery isn't a higher voltage it's still a 3.7vdc cell, but the capacity has been increased. If you are looking for deep targets and the conditions allow you to use the Multi-IQ mode with a pretty high sensitivity then this is the mode to search in. But if the conditions require you to significantly decrease the sensitivity due to chatter and EMI, then think about using a single-frequency mode if this allows the sensitivity to be increased. When you are using a single frequency then the receiver reduces the input window eliminating much more of the surrounding EMI. If you are using Multi-IQ mode then the receiver's input window has to be opened up very wide, allowing more EMI to be heard. I know the engineers have spent a lot of their time addressing this problem, and you can be the judge if it works for your situation. With the new lower 2.5kHz frequency. that is present when using the Multi-IQ mode, comes a likelihood of finding high conductive metals perhaps an inch or two deeper (based on soil conditions and detector settings), but it also leads to a high probability of over-exciting deep rusty iron targets causing super high eddy currents which flood the receiver making these ferrous targets bleed into the non-ferrous portions of the display. Before you dig these questionable targets, perhaps you could switch to the 10kHz single frequency mode to compare the results. The higher 10kHz will not over-excite the target and the results will usually be a better indication of the nature of the target.

The search coil is the antenna. dBm is a unit of measure which states how much radiated energy is being emitted from the antenna. In this case, the dBm measurements are made in close proximity to the search coil which allows for the measurement of its output power. Minelab is required by the FCC to disclose the radiated output power, which in this case is the same as all their other metal detectors. If they are radiating different power levels at different frequencies, then they should disclose them. Maybe you can request the dBm levels for all their individual frequencies? This is not a secret as anyone with the equipment can set a receiving antenna next to the search coil and measure the output dBm under their different frequencies.

Merrill, this reminds me of the mocumentary Spinal Tap where he says, "yeah, but this amp goes to 11! it goes one louder" Thank you for holding their feet to the fire, they need to be held accountable for their statements. Great investigative reporting! Keep up the good work. And... thank you to all those who are technical enough to find the truth!

The next time you go to buy a car and the seller shows you the most expensive justifying the price largely because it is the most powerful of the brand, but the brand does not tell you the horsepower or characteristics of that car or of none of the other brand motors to compare and decide, don't panic. It's Minelab Marketing. Buy on a leap of faith. The consumer wants to know the transmitting power of the detectors, but is not told. It is more powerful "because I said so"

What I’ve found and feel in my heart after a month of the manticore is that on the great sites I pounded with the 800 I believe the 800 did an incredible job of cleaning up the high conductor silver signals and the manticore is separating out the deep and on edge copper. 13” penny is very doable with the manticore yet I’ve not had a deep silver yet. All this being said I’ve hit 30 silver and 11 gold on the year so something is right with the manticore! Lastly the purchase of the manticore has not left me feeling let down at all, I love it and would recommend it to anyone that has the experience with minelab products and can afford it!

Im with you merril , 50% more power no good if you carnt use it or even control it, for eg 200mph car when speed limit on roads is 70mph . thanks for the video

As a retired engineering tech who worked in a sector involving beach and ground depth analysis, I thank you for this series. Best portion -NONE-YA. The brother of flim-flam gibberish😜 Just because some of us are not within the upper end budget of the Minelabs doesnt mean we pay no mind to their sales techniques. It IS our business and we thank you for poking that stick.

I'm a retired electronics tech, power is measurable. I challenge Minelab to prove that there is more power going into the ground. Minelab is guilty of false/misleading advertising. They are playing with words, semantics if you will. Great work, don't cave in to a phone call from "the man".

Thanks for thinking outside the box for us all. I've been using a Garrett 2500 since 2005 and find that the depth it puts out is very much the same as the Equinox. The only difference or issue that I have with the Garrett is that it weighs around six pounds which is extremely heavy to swing all day!!! lol I've been looking for a new detector for quite a while now and have followed all 700 of your videos to help me decide on what my next purchase would be, but $1500 verses $500 is quite a large investment for me since I'm now 63 years old and love metal detecting but just can't swing that heavy detector any longer. You have given me a tremendous amount of knowlege over the last couple of years and I most certainly appreciate that from You! Keep the videos coming even if it hurts someones feelings! Us true, Americans, are tired of throwing our hard earned money away on marketing scemes and lining the pockets on someone else just to have a little joy in what we LOVE TO DO!!! Thank you again, Merrill for your knowledge!!!

Thank you for raising these questions and for providing an update with Mark Lawrie's answers. The amount of transmitted power going into the ground and amplifying the return signal using the sensitivity settings are two different things entirely. At least on all the Equinox models, the amount of power going into the ground cannot be adjusted by the user. Beach 2 does automatically regulate transmit power according to salt and iron levels encountered. The other Equinox modes have a fixed, preset amount of power that is transmitted into the ground. I am not a Manticore owner so I don't know if there is a transmit power user setting. The different sensitivity levels of 0 to 25, 28 and 35 on the original Equinox, Equinox 900 and the Manticore only apply to amplifying the return signal. I agree with Loren Lemke. Mr Lawrie provided two very good answers to question 1 and 2 for anyone that can translate them from gibberish to something understandable. FCC regulated radiated limits of radio frequency energy from antennas and transmitters and as Mr Lawrie describes them.....low frequency reactive magnetic fields going into the ground from metal detectors are two different things. If a hobby metal detector could transmit its low frequency reactive magnetic field over long distances measured in many meters........that would start to fall into the FCC regulated radiated limits.

Just to clarify a bit about power measurement … Decibels (dB) are measured using a base 10 logarithmic scale. When used for RF (radio frequency) power, the scale begins at 0dBm which is one milliwatt or .001 watts of power. The plus (+)30dBm level mentioned in the FCC specification refers to 100 times that or 1 watt. Minelab specs the Manticore power level at minus (-)30dBm which equates to 0.000001 Watts which is not even close to being relevant. I agree with Dan Blankenship in saying that lower frequencies will travel further (and deeper) than higher ones. I don’t know what the actual individual power levels for each frequency of the detector. Perhaps if they were unequal Minelab may have flattened out the curve and made them similar. Also RF power can be measured in peak power or average power. If average power is used for measuring multifrequency output, then there is opportunity for Minelab to shift things around a bit and use some creative math to justify the “more power in the ground” claim by boosting lower frequencies and attenuating the higher ones. Another factor is the isolation between the transmit and receive sides of the coil. You don’t want the receiver hearing the signal the transmitter is sending. The detector compares these two signals against each other and measures the phase difference between them to sense and determine conductivity of the target. Minelab may have made some improvements in this area to enhance the resolution at the power levels being used. Regardless, Minelab seems to have wandered into the fog a bit with their claims of more power. I would think a deep dive into their design would be necessary to prove things out which they certainly will not be willing to do publically. Bottom line … If you think you’ll like the detector, buy it and enjoy.

these days it seems like many people simply take what they are told and not asking questions, thank you for asking the quesitons!

Thanks so much for doing this, as a small channel without a strong capital base it is important info to know that a used nox 800 will be a better fit for my budget when the time comes.id rather be the kid on the playground with hand me downs than to have sacrificed financially for no extra gain or just for the assumed prestige

Interesting discussion. What maybe a point here is that although the FCC has a limit of 1 watt or 30 dbm, that does not mean every metal detector is using that maximum. It merely means one cannot exceed that limit. Therefore the real question is how much of that FCC limit is being used by the Manticore compared to the older 600 and 800 Equinox models (and other metal detectors). I think determining what the power level is at various frequencies is where to make the fairest comparison. Example: if the 800 uses x amount of power for Y frequency how does that compare to what the Manitore uses? This to me is how to decide if there really is more power going into the ground with the Manticore.

Shame on minelab. They think viewers are idiot. Luckily detectorist community have someone like merill , Dan and few others who study and made some research about what minelab claim on their manticore

1 watt is still one watt. The performance increase is caused by the lower frequency and improved processor POWER. The real energy going into the ground is still regulated by the FCC. Bottom line here is more power should have been labeled More Processor Power.

Great follow up. Cant wait to speak to you more about this on the Relics Radio podcast tonight! 🎉

Thanks for standing up for us detectorists Merrill and searching for the truth😊.100 hrs on my manticore so far. Pulling silvers and coppers from the sites I pounded with 800 and 15 inch coil. Pulled lots of iron at first, now I’m used to the audio and know lots of other little tricks to dig less of it.

Power is measured in WATTS, not what was stated which involves frequency only. KHZ has nothing at all to do with RF power coming out of the coil.

Great video Merrill. Being an old auto mechanic Minelab should have said the Manticore has more torque instead of power.