Marika's Ascension was NOT legitimate; AND IT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING [Elden Ring Lore]

Hi all! This has gotten a lot more attention than I could have imagined. After going through your comments, I have come to realize there are some premises and conclusions of this theory that should have been elaborated and explained a bit more in the video. So I am pinning the elaborations here, hoping to make things clearer. 1. The Two Elden Ring premise The description of the incantation Elden Stars describes the arrival of the Elden RIng/Beast and is an Erdtree incantation. This seems to imply that the Elden Ring was sent during and is linked to the Era of the Erdtree. On the other hand, the ancient dragons era is a "prehistoric era before the Erdtree", yet they also seems to have an Elden Ring of their own, and a different looking one at that. Meanwhile, Metyr is said to be “the first shooting star” to fall upon the Landsbetween, in a similar fashion as the Elden Star which bore the Elden Ring. So from here the simplest solution would be the conclusion of two Rings, first one bore by Metyr in prehistoric time of the Ancient Dragons, and second one the bore by an Elden Star in the Age of the Erdtree of Marika. 2. "Elden Stars" is also a great counter evidence to the theory. Elden Stars is also said to be the most ancient of incantations derived from the Erdtree. Since this incantation is the most ancient one aka the first one derived from the Erdtree, and mentions the arrival of the Elden Ring, it can also imply that the Elden Ring/Beast was sent during the earliest days of the Erdtre, if not before its existence and is linked to its creation. Therefore, the Elden Ring/beast seems unlikely to have arrived near the end of the age of plenty as the video suggests This is indeed a hard one for that part of the theory. But the theory overall can still stand as long as the Ring was sent on earliest days of Erdtree and not before its creation. And Marika instead waited the war to end where the Erdtree finally "become the embodiment of Order" before she made all the changes, which is a strategically sensible thing to do. 2. Ymir and the Three Fingers are unreliable narrators I agree we cannot treat their words as facts. it’s obvious they have their own agenda and are most likely insane. But what Ymir said about the Fingers being broken was also mentioned by Gideon and the description of Lord’s Divine Fortification incantation. On the other hand, the origin story told by the Three Fingers in the base game is reinforced by Ymir’s version in the DLC. Given the context that there is limited amount of lore and revelations fromsoft can put into the DLC and they had to be efficient on what’s the best to include to tie in the story best they can, i think it makes more sense that Fromsoft is confirming the Origin story to us through Ymir, rather than simply repeating an unreliable narrator theme of the Three Fingers with such length. And considering Ymir’s goal is to become a mother of fingers, it seems more likely that he would be besmirching the mother of the fingers instead, about it being unhinged and broken. However the fingers being broken was again confirmed by other sources as well. So maybe he’s not as much of an unreliable narrator upon closer inspection, as he seemed. 3. Greater Will is too involved in this theory The presentatio of the theory does somehow seem to suggest so, so I should have elaborated more on this. I think the changes and events mentioned in this video happened not because of the Greater Will was actively interfering and making them happen but because of the new laws and order ordained by the Elden ring and the beast that is described as the LIVING incarnation of the concept of Order. Again the Elden ring is a concept that defines the world. And changes happened simply because the new ring defined the worldly differently and ordained a new order. And is the Greater Will completely passive and indifferent? We know the Nox invoked the ire of the Greater Will and Astel was sent to banish them underground. Unless this too is also an unreliable narrator, it would be safe to conclude the Greater Will did make his will known and interfered at times and not totally passive. Finally, there are a lot of nuances or events this video hasnt really touched on or fit in, but thats also why this will not be the last video or theory of this channel. Thank you fellow Tarnished for showing so much love on my first video!

Idk why everyone is so quick to just take Ymir at his word. Him calling anyone else unhinged seems pretty rich imo

I just wanted to say, you say that Metyr never received any messages from the greater will, but the staff of the great beyond says "the mother recieved signs from the greater will", which means she received messages for a time. but at a certain point it seems she was abandoned. its very interesting thinking about what could have caused the greater will to abandon her

Ah, yes, Count Ymir obviously gets a say in who is unhinged

On the stone slabs in Belurat we see depictions of the Crucible. It is three tree trunks entwined. I think the Erdtree and Scadutree used to be entwined. Marika simply plucked the Erdtree from the Crucible and left the remnants (the Scadutree) to rot. She wanted the gold aspect of the Crucible without its other characteristics (the red part of the old gold).

I've been thinking, that Marika seduced the hornsent with promises of divine power, secrets she learned from the Fingers, but when they built the gate of divinity, she betrayed them, and took the divine power for herself.

I don’t think that there essentially need to be two Elden Rings, I think the previous Elden Ring of Placidusax’s and his consort God’s order are simply the previous iteration of the Order. We know even in the current age that new Runes in the form of Mending Runes can not only created by mortals (non-gods) but also inserted to the Elden Ring to make new concepts/law to manifest in the world. I also think that the Elden Beast isn’t some separate entity that represents the Elden Ring, rather he IS the Elden Ring. The description of Elden Stars did say this: “It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring.” Overall solid theory and banger video. I subscribed 🤗❤

This perfectly aligns with st. Trina's "Godhood would be Miquella's prison". It also hints at the origins of Radagon, and wether or not Radagon and Marika were always the same person, or were at some point made to be the same person.

Something to note about the Scadutree is that it was almost certainly created by Marika and imposed upon the people of the Realm of Shadow. Scadutree fragments are frequently found in front of Marika statues, and the item description says they are collected by people of the Erdtree. The only example I can think of of Scadutree fragments being collected by the Hornsent culture is the church in the Abyssal Woods, but since there is no Messmer presence there and the Shadow Realm Blessing mechanic exists to encourage exploration, I'm going to say that's a case of gameplay and story segregation. Also, Messmer soldier equipment is marked with the emblem of the Scadutree.

I think the Crucible is the Order before the Golden Order, during the Age of Plenty, at the time when Placidusax reigned and when the Erdtree was the Great Tree. I believe the Crucible was the law of the land, survival of the fittest, evolution, and the ancient dragons were the pinnacle of this order. Godfrey himself once followed the crucible, and his form before Marika tamed him, Hoarah Loux, seemed to embody survival of the fittest. The land, the gods, the tree, and the orders all seem to be inherently linked together. When Marika removed the rune of death, all that had to go somewhere. All manner of death washes up in the land of shadow; the land itself is linked to death, and it too was shrouded and sealed away by Marika at the birth of her new order. The part of the Great Tree that was also linked to Destined Death was also sealed away in this land, as the Scadutree, as they are not really separate things. The Erdtree is the Great Tree with the rune of death removed: the Golden Order. Now I say all that, simply to lay the groundwork that the Erdtree is the Great Tree, just with Destined Death removed. So, I don't think the Elden Stars description places the arrival of the Elden Beast during Marika's reign. After all, the Elden Beast is described as the true form of the Elden Ring. And the symbol of the Crucible is obviously the Elden Ring, just in a different form; a different Order, with Destined Death in place. Placidusax was also referred to as Elden Lord, an obvious nod to the fact it was consort to a god that was the vessel of the Elden Ring. Very cool video. I greatly enjoyed watching it. That is the one detail I disagree with you on though.

I really, really like a lot of what you have to say. My theory was that Marika performed the original sin, the seduction and the betrayal beyond the gate of divinity by killing the greater will. If you look closely at the divine gate you'll see Hornsent bodies on the main structure and outer layer but the foundation has no Horned bodies at all. I think that's very telling. So Marika's story begins in the Shaman village, where her people are rendered into a fleshy mass conglomerates. The divine gate construction was begun using the flesh of Shamans because of their flesh melded "harmoniously". Their inherent spiritual aptitude made for the ideal medium to construct the Divine Gate. Enir Elim stinks of the tower of Babel. Likely GW and the fingers saw it and the gates construction as heresy. So they name Marika empyrean, lines by Ymir about Marika being guided by the two fingers. Show that she was endorsed by the Fingers and the new Crimson/Cerulean Seed talismans depict the erd tree seed between two fingers. They offered Marika godhood and the means to have her vengeance in the Erdtree. In her powergrab as empyrean she finishes the Gate with the dead of Hornsent, seduces and kills the GW, plucks her rune from its corpse. From this point on, the fingers are "abandoned" and it's a very, very long time before anyone notices. Ena tells us it takes tens of thousands of "moons" for the fingers to commune with the GW. In this foggy period that follows Marika has 5 cursed children. Messmer, Melina, Margit, Morgott and Godwyn. Mostly with Godfrey. Eventually the Fingers suspect what Marika did and name empyreans to succeed her. This is where things start to kick off, godskin hunt, cleansing crusade and eventually the shattering. And then I keep typing more paragraphs that no one will ever read lol.

Nah, The Elden beast definitely came before Marika ascended

I'd still argue that both Hyetta and Ymir are wrong about the Greater Will creating the Universe Simply because they are both clinically insane

I'm positive the figure holding up the Strands is Radagon. Idk how it fits in with Marika and her betrayal and ascension or the birth of the Golden Order but every time I see that clip I see a male silhouette. The lighting gives the gold hair a red tint which l think hints at Radagon. His hair was described as golden before being cursed.

I still believe that the shadowlands were once connected where the large center ocean is now. And the scadutree always makes me think there’s 2. I almost feel like the diagonal tree that’s being suffocated of its sap is the crucible and in the rite that Marika performed, the twisted tree started suffocating the crucible of its gold and transferred to what we know as the Erdtree. Then Marika veiled the shadowlands from the rest of the world and washed her hands. She stripped the grace of gold from the natives of the shadowlands. To be fair, the Hornsent turned Marika’s people into pots.

the thing she's pulling the golden threads out of, looks suspiciously like the textures of the Godskin armor. and the little round thing inside kinda looks like a bald head. Maybe she sacrificed someone else to become a god, maybe Melina, or the missing Gloam eyed Queen who seems to have a deep relation to the Godskins.

So in a sense, marika threw a revolution after plax hid away to lick his wounds from their fight with bayle (probably trying to contact the greater will himself when metyr failed them based off plax’s pose). Only for the greater will to imperialized them again based off a petty and fleeting deal for revenge. With my own theory being that the gloam eyed queen was potentially the empyean of plax’s reign, specifically charged with returning things back to the crucible. So when the crucible was plugged up by the erdtree and destined death removed (presumably as a way for marika to protect those she cared about, which it’s inevitable failure caused her to become cold and distant as a coping mechanism) it annoyed gloam since they made her existence pointless. Only for her to be vanquished by malikath. With Melina’s gloam eye either due to her being possessed by gloam similar to malenia with the rot god. Or the eye is actually a iris of occultation similar to messmer iris of grace. But rather than sealing a abyssal serpent (and potentially enforce obedience like what we do to jolan) it hides you from the grace of gold and makes you exempt from any charges to its rules which is how she survives the frenzy flame ending. Since the /kill all command didn’t apply to her.

I kinda wish we could get definitive answers to some of these questions, but at the same time, the theorycrafting with the community is some of the most fun shit I've ever experienced.

This is neither here nor there but I have a hunch there is a lot of ancient Egyptian mythology in Elden Ring. To stay on the topic of your video I want to point out the creator god, Aten. As a god Aten was the sun and was often depicted as a sun with sunrays coming off of it that end with hands. Sometime the sun would also be shown with two much larger arms with hand, among it's many ray with little hands. Aten was also the god of Akhenaten, a pharaoh who tried to replace the worship of Ra with the worship of Aten. His cult died soon after he did, replace with the previous religion. Egypt was also the first culture to have a world tree and world serpent as part of it's mythology. Finally there was a very common artifact found in many mummy tombs that was a carving of Osiris's two fingers. They were supposed to represent healing and protection and were called the two-finger amulets by Egyptologists.

This is the best video on Marika and The Elden Ring I've seen so far. Amazing work