The Army of the Dead is Bullsh*t

One of my favorite parts in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields [book] is when Pippin is running to find Gandalf at the city gates. As Pippin flies down the narrow lanes, he passes many men who have abandoned their posts at the defense of the city, and are now running mad with despair. And yet, some of the men when seeing the 'Halfing Prince' running toward the danger and not away from it; return to their senses and again take up their posts at the defense of Minas Tirith.

So what you’re saying is they should’ve made Nazgul more like debuffing dark heroes instead of just unique air units and made the scenario not just a timed tower defence mission.

“Men fight because they love what is behind them. Orcs fight because they hate what is in front of them. And they fear what is behind them.” Brilliant !

When I finally read the books, I was amazed at how much more complex this battle was portrayed and how many more layers, characters and even factions are involved. Gondor is an actual kingdom with multiple cities and "states", not just a single city in a barren field. Jackson oversimplified it, but it still generally works. It also made me accept some of his Hobbit changes more.

“One does not simply adapt an entire book series into three movies.” It just can’t be done and frankly they did their absolute best with the medium of art they had and were familiar with.

Dude, I’ve been saying this same thing for years. Jackson missed out on Aragorn’s arrival. It wasn’t just reinforcements, it was the return of the king. While the Witch King turned turned hope to despair, Aragorn turned despair into hope. It’s legit the one scene I tell people was messed up in the movie, and so much better in the book.

While just using the dead directly in the battle may have been necessary due to time, I have for awhile now thought that if they had to be used this way that the Witch-King should have had a scene vaporizing a huge chunk of them. Just so the audience isn't thinking at the Black Gate that the dead army could have won the whole war right then and there.

The battle as written in the book is one of the most moving sections of writing I know of. When the banner unfurls and it's plain for all to see that the King has returned and the tides of the battle change, it's a moment unmatched in any book I've ever read.

These movies are my absolute favourite films of all time and I firmly believe they're overall on par with the books, but if I could make just one change, it would be adding in the banner of Elessar. It was such a powerful scene from the books and the moment where Aragorn truly became king. The utter fear in the guards of Minas Tirith melted away, running down the hill into the orc ranks and shattering their offense. It's too bad portraying psychological warfare is as difficult as it is, it was the major theme of this battle.

Justice for Halbarad, Forlong, Hirluin, and Grimbold! Fantastic video, I have exactly the same feeling, the movie is amazing but that moment when just the witch king rides through the shattered gate and none but Gandalf stands to face him. Then the horns bring new hope and you're spirited away to see the morning's events from the Rohirim's perspective. The Fiefdoms coming to Gondor's aid, the sallying out lead by Imrahil, the mysterious Gothmog taking control after the witch-king's banishment. Just so much happens, and its so well written. I am glad Theoden gets his moment in both mediums though. Andy Serkis' reading of the battle is phenomenal and I often go back to just listen to these chapters.

Nobody died needlessly. They died buying time for their king to arrive with reinforcements, even though they did not know this. Holding out for as long as possible is always a worthy death. There are limits as to what can be portrayed on screen, and I think Jackson showed the battle between hope and hopelessness as well as possible.

I also didn't really like the armies of the dead being present at the battle of pelenor fields. The defeat of the corsairs was fulfillment of their oath. Taking the ships and recruiting their own mini army in the name of the king made their oath complete. It felt like a betrayal of the king to have him force these restless souls to keep fighting beyond their debt owed and then the little fakeout of the king still deeming their oath unfulfilled felt out of character for aragorn, even if it was a fakeout.

Impressive insights into a scene from a great movie. It's easy to overlook shortfalls from an overall outstanding work.

100% agreed. The Green Goo was my biggest gripe of the movie, but I still rank Pelennor Fields as my favorite battle in the LotR movies.

One additional element to this is, with the ride of the Grey Company and fetching the Gondorian forces that explicitly did not come to Minas Tirith at Denethor's call earlier in the text (completely reworked into Lethal Green CGI Wave), the incredibly valuable work he does at the Houses of Healing (left out of the theatrical cut), and in how he manages those too frightened to march into Mordor itself (not in the film at all), King Elessar is establishing his right to rule. This is missed (accidentally or on purpose) almost entirely by the movie adaption because they replace that part of the book's arc with a perhaps more "modern" idea of personal self-actualization--movie!Aragorn is more uncertain of his own right to rule at the start of the films and discovers that self-belief over time, and once he does, the movie (mostly) assumes so will everyone else. (Note the different points in the narrative where the reforging of the sword occurs.) The book, in my opinion, does much more work to establish this for everyone, sometimes subtle, sometimes quite overt ("Hands of a King are the Hands of a Healer" is maybe the most knock-you-over-the-head instance). Put another way, it's not an accident that the army that Aragorn brings in the book version is composed of: the Gondorian forces that were previously tied up by Corsairs/other hosts; his fellow remnants of Arnor; several elves; and our good dwarven representative. It had specific meaning, including how it ties into feudal-adjacent rulership. Also see how he interacts with Eomer King and the local captains (Imrahil, Faramir). Why should Aragorn be King? Because he protects, rallies, and heals his people, he knows what they can and cannot do, and he makes alliances with other peoples. The Dead were only to aid in freeing up the scattered Gondorian hosts by turning the very weapon of the enemy against them: as this video very correctly points out, fear and despair and confusion. We could say those elements make up "morale", and morale wins and loses battles from dawn of time to now, something both Professor Tolkien in our world, and Aragorn in his, understood. I do understand, though, that the movie format does not allow for the same manner of portrayal for how the Nazgul wage war. What we got in the film still largely works in conveying the threat of the Ringwraiths, and how e.g. Gandalf's presence counteracts it (they just get it across with more beams of light and swings of a staff). This is a complete digression but something I find amusing is that the Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban movie had similar difficulty with a similar concept at around a similar time in history--Dementors are creatures of evil kin to Nazgul, just emphasizing different aspects a little more as, I think, JK Rowling and JRR Tolkien overall emphasize different elements of humanity in their stories--the also-kin Myrddraal from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, a third favourite series of mine, provide yet another angle on the topic. Of course, I would say that the LotR movie Ringwraiths came much closer to matching the power of their original book than the movie!Dementors, which I found mostly absurd on first watch, not nearly as good as what was in the book. Hopefully the upcoming series can do more justice to Rowling's text in that and other ways, since for all the flaws and complaints I have about Jackson's films, I also think they're a genuine miracle of film-making and perhaps the greatest adaption of all-time. Certainly the effort and craft that went into them can only ever be matched, never exceeded. Enough rambling on my part. Interesting video, glad to see someone observing this sort of thing.

Always hated how bad the average Gondorian soldier performed in the battle of Pelennor Fields. Thats why I prefer the two towers. I know Peter has said in an interview that he didnt think they communicated the affect of the nazguls too well, so showing the skills of the gondorian soldier without the affect would change a lot in my opinion. For example, imagine the gondorian soldier kicking ass when defending Osgiliath, but flee once the nazgul appears. Nevertheless, it should have been communicated in a better way as pointed out in this video. Thanks Master Samwise! Good video

Agreed. There are a few creative changes that were made-such as with the army of the dead that weren’t as good as they could have been. I definitely had that exact feeling as I was watching them completely destroy Sauron’s army on their own. There were others although like you, I’m still amazed today at how good the whole trilogy was.

One thing about Gandalf is there are hints all across the book how powerful he is. When he comes back as Gandalf the white and met Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas and they attack him and fail, he goes "Get up, my dear Gimli! No blame to you, and no harm done to me. Indeed, my friends, none of you have any weapon that could hurt me.". According to Silmarillion even dragons feared Dwarfs because of the mightily blows of their battle axes and fire proof armour and Aragorn had Anduril made from the shards of the Narsil, which cut off Sauron's finger, and Legolas is as good a fighter as Gimli. He also pursued the Balrog for 8 days which implies the Balrog feared him and fled, and only fought when it got trapped on a mountain peak and had no other choice. At one point he also tells he is the most dangerous being in Middle Earth save for the Dark Lord Sauron himself. Yet in the movies he turns into a lil bich in front of the Witch king, and in The Hobbit he is portrayed weaker than Galadriel.

I realised how much of a pedant I am when I almost melted into my cinema seat in horror at the exchange between Eowyn and the Witch King. I have no idea what business they thought they had changing that perfect dialogue, but I have just two words for them: "Thou fool."

Personally my biggest problem is it felt more like a wave than a battle. I like feeling the impact and the clash of a charge rather than just looking at a tide of green rolling over the enemy.