Should You Use A PID On Your Still?

The conversations are great. Some of you may not realize it but Jesse and I are friends. Please keep that in mind. Many of these comments do show how much PID control is misunderstood. Have an open mind; PID is simply SCR automated with a feedback loop. I really enjoy the deep back and forth discussions and sharing of experiences. Reminds me of two fans comparing stats and abilities of their favorite football teams. Happy Distilling George

I've been distilling for years now and started off controlling temperature manually. Frankly, that is a pain in the ass. I switched to a PID and love it, but it is not a device that should run unattended. Like most equipment, it requires gaining experience using it. First off, when the PID starts up heating the wash it is going to run flat out on max high. It will continue to do that till the thermal probe set temperature is reached. At that point it will begin actual temperature control. What you want is for the still and the PID to become balanced. When this happens, the set and actual temperature are about the same. This is the "sweet" spot where outflow is right, temperature perfect, and ABV up around 90-96%. At this point it will continue at a constant for sometime, but not forever. As the run progresses, you will need to adjust the set temp up a bit now and then. How much to adjust depends on the outflow and ABV which you want to be consistent. Where new users make a mistake is thinking a PID is a totally automatic device. It isn't. You still need to monitor temp, flow, and ABV as the run progresses. I start my set temp at around 130 F and let the still gradually come up. Once at 130 F, I increase set temp to 145-150F to remove Heads and here is where balancing begins. I let it flow till I've removed about 4oz of waste Heads, then move set temp up in 5-8 degree increments till actual and set temps are running close. Generally around 175-180F. This is the sweet spot. Let it run as long as temps remain close. Gradually, you will have to bump up the set temp in small 3-5 degree increments. I will stop my run when boiler temp reaches around 204F or ABV hits about 88%. Any lower and you'll begin to introduce tails or off flavors. In my opinion, a PID is awesome! But, you need to keep monitoring it and become experienced with it. I would never go back to distilling without a PID.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU This is one of the FIRST PLACES I have heard this properly stated. You are absolutely correct and this information needs to be out there!

Absolutely love this!! Many people have a hard time visualizing how the distillation process works, your heat source on/in your boiler effects the vapor speed not the boiling point of the boiler. A constant heat source gives a better product in the long run. Keep it up 👍

Should get with George and make a PID solenoid valve controlled still.. That would be cool.. best of both world's.. Take care , and Thank you ..

I purchased a PID from clawhammer and it has two functions . You can use temperature for controlling or percentage of power on your element . It works for me on my pot still . For each his own . Love the videos Jesse . Always a great place to learn . Keep it up 👍

What you describe at 10 minute mark is NOT how your PID should be working if you set it up for distilling. This is what people fail to realize and why people say a PID is the wrong tool for the job. Their SETUP/USE of the PID is wrong. When setup correctly it will NOT be using AutoTune but will be delivering a constant amount of power until it reaches it's target temp. After alll why would it lower power when it hasn't reached the target temp??? It will not be pushing/pulling power if setup correctly. So in a nutshell it will be delivering a steady amount of power until it reaches it's set point and then it will not be producing product. So if you set the temp for where hearts starts the heads will come out and the drip will slow down approaching hearts. You can switch to small containers during the cutover period and collect late tails. Then you up the temp and put the reflux still back into full reflux mode to compress your vapor again and change the set point for where tails come in. Now you will get a steady amount of power up to where tails come out and the still will slow way down as it needs more energy to produce the tails. So you are not controlling temperature but allowing the PID to help you make better cuts. Of course a good PID will have a manual mode you can switch to which will basically put it in power vs temperature mode. PIDs are nice if you use them in the boiler. Switch mode and you can drive the still by boiler temp and shut down at say 210 F or 99.5C when almost all the alcohol is out of the boiler or can be set to hold a temp in the boiler which is great for slow warming and holding rye mashes to avoid puking. Also great for strike water production when fermenting/mashing. The key is to understand distillation and setup your tools to work properly. Anyone who says a PID is the wrong tool hasn't used one setup properly because if they had it would work just as reliably as a power controller. With that said I use a DSPR400 for power on my boiler as it has the best features of both power and PIDs built into one device.

Heres something to think about: let's say you put a piece of tape over the display and ran the still based on the condenser output, using the PID's up or down button to control the output. Wouldn't that be exactly like what you do now with your current SCR setup? Your beef with PIDs is isn't the equipment, but the fact that the equipment forces inexperienced distillers to focus on temperature instead of condenser output. BTW love your channel I watch every new video that comes out. Keep stillin'.

Excellent and sound advice Jesse, I was just starting to research the use of a PID on my T-500. Sure hope we can get George back in the near future, miss his lessons.

Bravo Jesse! You have cleared up a lot of questions new hobby distillers have over the process, with great detail. I think that after a dozen or more times running their Stills using both types of temp controllers, they will prove your point. Slow smooth manual temp control is best overall. I made a combined unit, PID to control my HLT, and PWM to run the Still.

After trying propane initially, then using a PID, I have been very happy with not babysitting the flame and constantly chasing the temperature at the point of no return, especially when using a reflux mode. I think it's worth it to try an SCR just to see if it does better on reflux mode. Good argument!👍

Jess, love the video. Now that being said. Let's get stuck in on the science behind frac and pot distilling. You almost got there but stopped when getting in to what happens to those respected molecules and how they are separated during frac in the column. What actually happens to them as they rise and fall? Which ones rise during frac and why? George has a few vids on it but we'd love to see you do a detailed disection on frac as well. The molecular science behind just getting some good drink is really cool when you understand how it works and why we do what we do. It really help when doing your build and choosing reflux, plates, scrubbers, and the like to understand why you are choosing a specific thing.

I’m a total newb. Ok, now that’s out of the way.. This is what I plan to do, and what I think everyone should do that’s interested in the PID/non-PID argument. I have a PID. I am going to do runs with it, and without it and see which method I like better. Simple as that. No need to argue, that’s so silly. Try it both ways and see which way works best for you. Easy...

I'm a recent subscriber and I have no regrets, your hands on approach is awesome, i had recently refurbished an 1800's deroy fils aine still, I believe it to be 27 liters. so I figured i would give home brewing a shot.

Right on Jesse! Your explanation is brilliant. I recently built a new still using a PID. Mainly because I love to tinker and having the freedom to be close by my still while it does it’s thing gave me that. I have not found any difference in product. I’ll use my analogy of two cars driving side by side, one is fuel injected one is carbureted. Both accomplish same thing, one does it electronically the other analog.

Love your channel. Interesting insights, entertaining discussion, enviable outcomes.

Love it... it’s a debate I’ve heard so many times, don’t think people can argue now especially how you have explained it.

my first home built 2" reflux column still was based on Georges PID principle and seemed to work fine at first. The main issue i found that was that the take off temp at the top of the still (where the thermo-couple is) kept changing by 3-10 degrees C up and down as the PID increased and decreased the power input into the boiler. (due to the time lag of the vapor leaving the boiler and reaching the top of the still/thermo-couple) eventually i set the PID to manual mode and set the power output to 30% so the column was under constant vapor load and the output was a constant 500 ML per hour. the thermocouple temp then never moved more than 0.1 degree C the whole run from start to finish. i found 30% was the sweet spot for high quality and if driven harder than 30% created off tastes. My reflux cooling at the top is a manually controlled needle valve and at 6 litres per hour im collecting 93% abv (many many settings of the P, I and D were worked through and much pid theory was researched but would never settle down to a constant temp at the top of the still) Just my 10 pence worth

Thanks jessie glad u shared, perfect timing keep up the great work !!

Thank you very much for this video Jesse, have been having this question so much, busy with my next video, the taste test on my All grain whiskey.