Shadow of the Erdtree Critique: Difficulty without Purpose

Thank you for actually pointing this out. Since I finished the DLC (which I enjoyed a ton) I was left with this sensation of "People treated Dark Souls 2 very harshly for less than this, yet this DLC is considered a masterpiece by the majority".

I agree with this so much , it’s exactly what I’ve been saying … this DLC while impressive on many fronts has poor combat and poor scaling . There is no weakness or no strategic planning to abuse said weakness , they are all fast and have a ton of HP and poise … you can’t tell me this is a skill issue when I’ve beaten the dlc in full , this is a “fun” issue .. is it really fun to fight the same types of bosses and enemies? Not to mention the actual repeat bosses … I can’t believe I paid 60$ CAD to fight I falling star beast again in a empty area full of fingers … or fight the same stupid dragon we fought a million times in the base game but the only difference is it’s “ghost flame” now lol … I could go on about just the repeat bosses alone but it’s really the combat that’s disappointing for me

I've been caught by Radahns grab despite being behind him. Peak bad hitbox.

Strat-edgy production described it best, other games aim to maintain and train you for the "flow state" of combat while ER deliberately try to throw you off and surprise/trick you by breaking your concentration/rhythm with feints/delay attack/aoe spam all in the name of "hardest game"

You put into words what I couldn't while playing the dlc. I was afraid I was the only person losing their mind playing this. I remember enjoying the base game two years ago, but once I started the dlc I couldn't remember being so frustrated before. It is a beautiful game but the combat ended up feeling like I was working at a crappy job without getting any pay. Whenever I beat a boss it wasn't joy or excitement but just relief that it was over. There will always be idiot savants who can beat the game at level one, but for everyone else, it's just an unhappy slog.

Don’t worry too much man because if they make a new game we’ll all be forced to start at level one. Meaning they don’t really have to make it any harder than it already is.

What percentage of the "gitgud" crowd are just trying to justify the amount of time they spent on the game? Like a warped sunk cost fallacy type thing.

It's equally frustrating to hear "people just wanna brag about beating it so they refuse criticism" as it is to hear "skill issue git gud" I'm not a god gamer, I struggled a fat bunch but I enjoyed it. I just like the game, I think it's good. If I say I enjoy Radahn's lightshow, I like how it forces you to not merely time your dodge but also orient them in a way that one dodge avoids two attacks , coupled with the incredible music with an unusual tone for a Souls fight and the story context it made for a really spectacular and satsfying fight that I happily struggled through, is my appreciation merely driven by hollow bragging rights or is it just that I had fun ? What if I like that enemies have longer combos mixed in with delays because it means I can't just roll around and wait for an obvious opening but have to make one for myself through hitting in their delays or parrying or jumping ? What if I think this adds a unique layer to Elden Ring that the other games do not have, that makes every fight more active and more exciting, less turn-based ? What if I appreciate that the difficulty pushes me into using far more tools and moves to even the playing field than the previous games ever did because nothing else mattered in those but roll+R1 ? It's not like I disagree with everything, I wish From Soft would let go of much of Souls tropes, the camera sucks for Bayle and Lion, Metyr's lasers and Radahn's swipes aren't good. But what if I just think that those are blemishes rather than deep flaws and Elden Ring and its DLC have improved over previous games through much that you decry ? Can I not hold these opinions without having what I value be lumped in with idiots saying "uuuh skill issue git gud" ?

The constant attacking from enemies, their hyper armor and the absolute trash item placements are my biggest problems with this DLC.

Sekiro and lies of p both are my favorite combat ever in a video game. I love both those games combat.

Yeah, the bosses in the DLC are more than a bit overturned. I wouldn't say they are "harder" Melenia, who I never actually defeated without co-op cheese, whereas I've been able to solo all of the DLC up to the final boss. That said, the DLC bosses are otherwise still all way harder than anything else from the base game. The long combo strings with short window of vulnerability are a big art of that, but something I don't see brought up nearly as much is just how quickly the bosses start their aggression in the first place. In the base game most bosses have an initially slow approach, which is important because the player can't actually summon their spirit ash until stepping through the fog. In the DLC however, boss don't just have faster attacks, they can also close distance just quickly and punish any attempt to use spirit ash from the start.

As soon as I saw in the original Elden Ring promotional material that they had gone back to the dog shit Dark Souls 1 rolling I knew there was going to be issues with the games combat no matter what they did with weapon arts/ashes of war. I have absolutely no idea why they went backwards with character movement instead of refining DS3 movement (maybe make rolls use more stamina or something to balance them better). The character movement makes everything about the gameplay worse and feel like just another clunky Dark Souls 1 with some extra steps. The bosses in the DLC are all show no substance, and the way effects are handled on attacks makes combat tedious more often than not. They took 2 years to make this shit, and a good 50% of the map doesn't need to be there. You could cut out the open world entirely from these games and you would lose nothing. I really hope From goes back to making more focused games, Elden Ring tried to do too much and a lot of it is done poorly as a result.

I agree with everything you said here. Elden Ring is my first souls game, and I've realized that what actually ends up happening for me is that I stand as high a chance of defeating a late game and DLC boss the first time around as the 100th time. Since the boss is gonna be flying around the arena, blocking my camera and spamming attacks, I'm not learning the pattern of the attacks, I just level up until I'm able to power through and get lucky with the moveset. That's in stark contrast to minor bossfights or mobs that have fewer tricks up their sleeves, who absolutely destroy you the first time, but after a couple of tries, you learn how to deal with them reliably.

Great video. The demons souls formula has run its course . Not just in the combat style and mechanics , but even with the level design. Shortcuts stop becoming interesting or useful if you always expect them to find them the same way , for example , you start exploring a new area , immediately see a door you can’t open and you already know this is a shortcut . Ds1 had some surprises with the shortcuts. Now it’s just expected. From soft need innovation now more than ever . Also, why does Elden ring have the mechanic of losing runes upon death , it’s not particularly suited to this style of game . It’s just copied over. We need new ideas and mechanics to induce new emotions and tensions within the gameplay experience ( expanding on ideas like insight and world tendency is the right direction to go ) Z

I’m surprised you like the new environments more than the base game. I thought it was far too dark, drab, and boring. Nothing inspired awe, like seeing the steps leading up to Leyndell, for example, or the gorgeous blue sky of Liurnia. At any rate, I agree 100% with your assessment on the combat. So often, it becomes an almost non-interactive event, where you have almost no options.

I liked some things about the dlc. Progression system not tied to rune level, I like it. Most of the new weapons, I like them. The new talismans are great. PCR 2nd phase is trash. Sannesax is just awful. Too many enemies are too fast with too much poise and do too much damage. I shouldn't get stunlocked with the heaviest armor AND GET 2 SHOT. Might as well wear no armor.

You have to pick one, the boss doesn't have an opening, and the boss have delayed attacks, bro this is your window attack the guy.

I agree with most of your points but I was still able to enjoy the DLC by optimizing my build and over power the bosses, without having to learn all the bosses 100%. And all the good points out ways a lot of the bad points with the bosses for me.

I agree with this more than I want to. I love fighting bosses with self-imposed challenges however if it takes 1000 tries to get it done then it simply becomes exhausting and makes me resentful toward gaming. I'm not using summons and I'm not going to make myself overpowered, it's not how I prefer to play.

Sketch ! Good to hear your thoughts on all this 👍