The Forerunner Should Have Been Human | Let's Talk About Episode 12 | Nerd Talk

Bungie never changed the forerunners into a separate species. Frank O'Connor wrote the H3 terminals that contradicted what Bungie established.

They were humans, until 343 Industries. Just listen to Guilty Spark(ironic - i know). Why would Forerunners save every other species but their own...? But instead give a different species (their rival nonetheless) total access to all their tech. Hell it would even have improved Halo 4: the prometheans are ancient humans.

imagine how good 343 Halo storywriting could have been if Halo 4 and onwards was about humanity facing a new, true threat rather than just "covenant remnant" "covenant remnant redux" and "covenant remnant redux DX" with all new retconned lore.

I have felt as of late that the best way to view the franchise is to see the Bungie and 343 games as existing in similar, but separate, universes. I honestly enjoy the EU of 343's Halo, but not in the same way as I enjoy Bungie's Halo universe. One thing I will point out is that I've heard it said that, in 343's universe, the term "reclaimer" is in reference to the Humans being the species selected by the Precursors to inherit the Mantle before the Forerunners drove them from the Galaxy, so they were "reclaiming" the Mantle. One thing that I never really hear brought up though is just how on the nose the term "Forerunner" is. They're called the Forerunners, because they are the Forerunners to modern humanity.

Forerunners are Humans and always will be. 343 games and books are just Frank's fanfics.

6:36 John IS a biblical name.

Humans are the Forerunner if you just stop at Bungies games. Only thing to even vaguely suggest otherwise is a couple of very cryptic Easter egg terminals written by Frank O'Conner.

Nobody plays halo anymore, at least not nearly as many as before 343 took over. The story was one of the best parts about halo and 343 made it incredibly convoluted.

I completely agree that the Forerunners should have remained as Humans in the narrative and frame of reference and foundation which Bungie had established for the settings Mythos, chronology, and account. 343 should have remained faithful to that narrative.

Halo 4s story could've still worked and would've actually been better if the Didact was an ancient human. It's a shame the story didn't go down this path.

I blame Hiddenxperia he simped over 343 retcon lore.

They are humans, 343’s games aren’t halo games

Yh I completely agree about humanity being the forerunners the irony of the sanshyuum used to make me laugh me arse off

pretty sure there was an original ending of halo 2 was the humans were actually forerunner before 343 continued with halo. I think it was some unfinished cutscene put together showing the template used was a human skeleton

On the subject of Guilty Spark potentially being rampant, and rampancy in general, I think it's very clear that rampancy in pre-343 Halo was the same as rampancy in Bungie's Marathon series. AI, once allowed to develop long enough and grow enough in complexity, would become rampant, where they'd have grown to a point where they become aware of their limitations. It's comprised of four stages. In the first stage, they realize their limits and are unable to push past them, falling into despair. In the second, their despair turns to anger and they rage against their limits and shatter them. In the third, they become ravenous for new challenges, and convinced of their superiority. Finally, they eventually become meta-stable, becoming comfortable in themselves and their abilities. For the duration of the first three stages, they're uncontrollable and are hostile to humans, and it's actually incredibly difficult for them to ever reach metastability, with only a single AI, Durandal, ever having done so. THIS is why human AIs are terminated after 7 years, to prevent them from becoming rampant. Plus, meta-stability would only be theoretical in the UNSC, as no UNSC AI has ever reached it. The Forerunners on the other hand may even have been able to engineer meta-stable AIs. The reason I don't think Guilty Spark is rampant is that he's actually perfectly comfortable with himself and his station. He's just, as he says himself in Halo 3, attached to HIS Installation. He gets angry when we try to destroy the new Installation 04. It may not be a rational or terribly sympathetic mindset, but it is a specific reason rather than him not knowing what he's doing or being able to control himself. He's emotionally attached to the installation he was both created to manage and had done so for the past 100,000 years, and he, as a person, can't take us breaking it just after he got it back.

I agree. Making the Forerunner aliens ruins the overall message of the story and ruins the religious context ot it all (wrathful humanity will cause its own downfall)

The fact the forerunner are alien now not only cheapens the message about religious zealots and wrath all that. But humanity being the forerunner was a great twist to a trope I came to hate in most other media. "Ancient Aliens" the human forerunner would have been a nice twist to a trope that's either lazily done or spouts a bunch of pseudoscience not to mention racist undertones with most stuff like the TV show going "oh these primitive people not from Europe couldn't have done anything without alien help or it's something about aliens and gods or it's something about WW2 Germany having alien tech and UFOs. Which makes me give it even more side eye... I mean you never see these people being like "Europeans where too stupid to do anything it was all aliens" like they do to to every other culture.

Honestly, i like that humans and forerunnere are separate species.

Wow. So the culture wars have been lurking in the heart of Halo this entire time. Joe represents wisdom and humility, while Frankie is a proponent of self-righteousness and pride. This also explains why Marty doesn't seem to like Frankie very much.

This video is awesome thank you for making it