Daemons, Demons, God, & the Meaning Crisis | Dr. John Vervaeke | EP 414

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Published 2024-01-15
Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down in person with Dr. John Vervaeke. They discuss the relationship between your calling and your conscience, the three dimensions of the sacred, how Descartes' famous “I think therefore I am” conclusion might be restructured in modern day, what exactly Socrates’s Daemon was, and the bridging of morality and meaning.

John Vervaeke is an Associate Professor in Cognitive Psychology and Cognitive Science at the University of Toronto. His work constructs a bridge between science and spirituality in order to understand the experience of meaningfulness and the cultivation of wisdom so as to afford awakening from the meaning crisis.

This episode was recorded on January 8th, 2024

Dr. Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: bit.ly/3KrWbS8


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After Socrates (Series)    • After Socrates | Premieres January 9t...  

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“Zombies in Western Culture: A Twenty-First Century Crisis” (book) www.amazon.com/Zombies-Western-Culture-Twenty-Firs…

"Mentoring the Machines: Orientation - Part One: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow" (Book) www.amazon.com/Mentoring-Machines-Orientation-Arti…


- Chapters -

(0:00) Coming up
(0:25) Intro
(1:42) 2024 plans, The Philosophical Silk Road
(5:33) The Vervaeke Foundation
(6:44) Cataloguing John’s body of work, AI
(9:02) Mentoring the Machine
(10:35) Staying virtuously oriented
(13:40) Entropy, perceptions, assumptions, and the sacred
(16:30) Hyper priors, indexing social standing for the proportionality of response to negative stimuli
(18:35) The divine lies deeper, calling and conscience
(23:30) Three dimensions of the sacred
(26:16) There is either a unity or a plurality
(27:30) “The One” grounds out in effability
(28:56) Love comes from a feeling of “realness”
(30:00) Healing and the Gospels
(31:33) Piaget, Descartes, systems of insight
(34:54) Thought is a form of secularized prayer
(41:07) Nothing within or without
(43:45) Humility and resolution
(45:16) The landscape of the soul, parallels to Dante’s Inferno
(48:00) Idolatry, using hurt to smite pretensions
(49:41) Conscience and the ineffable
(54:11) Vervaeke’s Daemons
(57:32) The appearance of Hermes, transjective presence
(59:48) Embracing the relationship
(1:05:06) The eye at the top of the pyramid,
(1:09:48) When a text is inevitably transformative
(1:14:52) Sacred but not the One, searching for ultimacy
(1:19:36) A metaphysical concern with evil
(1:21:50) Plato’s pivot problem
(1:25:02) Job’s proposition
(1:27:36) Joe Versus the Volcano
(1:30:09) Why we disassociate from meaning, morality, and being
(1:32:31) For love or duty, morality and ethics
(1:36:37) Restoration of the religio without traditional organization


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All Comments (21)
  • @MrDMR1
    I’m a Catholic priest and have a bit of theology under my belt. John Vervaeke is VERY well read and informed. I love the fact he quotes Nicholas of Cusa and the principle of paradox. This is serious and cutting edge Christian thought. GREAT convo!
  • @MrEgelados
    Following John Vervaeke's work over the years is like watching a reality show of someone going through an enlightenment process.
  • @patmaloney5735
    We are living in an era where everyone can attend epictetus' lectures or hear Lao Tzu speak. We shoukd be so immensely grateful
  • Anytime Jordan Peterson and John Vervaeke get together it’s magic 🪄 ❤️
  • @SeisiwaGosiame
    I met the man John Vervaeke, humble and a thought provoker. 😊
  • @Acedecoeur
    "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light".🙏
  • @junjunjarjarbinx
    Literally my favorite conversation from Jordan Peterson. Two heavyweight intellectuals talking about the nature of reality
  • @memopinzon
    Goes without saying that Vervaeke's series "Awakening From The Meaning Crisis" and "After Socrates" are absolutely worth anyone's time and cannot be recommended enough.
  • @bendadestroyer
    This is a fantastic discussion. I realized I am Jobe. In the last couple of years I lost my grandmother, my childhood home, my wife, and I struggled for a year to get a job, let alone one in my field (marketing). Through these hardships, I maintain my rose-tinted perspective overlooking the world. In your exodus discussion, you speak about the Jews breaking their covenant with God, but God maintains his side of the covenant. This is the approach I am taking with my wife while we are separated. After all, if God is the ultimate good, and that is what we should aim for, then I'm doing the right thing by continuing to love and honor my wife. Yesterday, her car battery died. She called me on my day off while she was at the apartment of her emotional affair (she doesn't know I know). She tried to pay me $50, but I refused. I didn't change the battery out of debt, ego, or to prove a point. I changed the battery because she is my wife, and I will always provide for her when possible. She took a piece of my soul with her, but I'm so thankful for small moments.
  • @MTech07
    I’m too stupid and poorly-read to grasp more than 40% of what they discussed, but I have enough unconscious wisdom to realize this was very very profound. I’m grateful that I have a life ahead to catch up and try to understand. Thanks you both for keep brining meaning to us. I sincerely wish you nothing but a profound adventure. Thank you.
  • @susancullom3508
    How blessed to be "a fly on the wall" for this conversation, talk about gratitude 🙏
  • @sylvanbear7125
    I used to think that Jordan and John were rivals, probably because John remained in the university, also because Jordan seemed to have regarded Jung more highly than John did. Now I see that they are collaborators, operating on distinct but parallel tracks. One thing is for sure, each is very highly read and competent in the arts of research. We must all benefit from their gracious sharing in this public forum.
  • @sharpenedge
    From Dawkins to Hitchens From Hitchens to Harris From Harris to Peterson From Peterson to Vervaeke What a ride this has been so far.
  • @JoshWiniberg
    Vervaeke brings out the very best in Peterson. These are the conversations that, like the best books, you can come back to time after time and discover something new in it. More like this please!
  • @pi1810
    You have no idea how fundamentally and profoundly this discussion has affected me. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
  • @balauhnvbalvbjv
    These two need a joint lecture series, easily my 2 favourite intellectuals right now
  • @traveel9409
    Conversations between Jordan and Vervaeke are always a treat
  • @davidlakhter
    these conversations with John are always a pleasure!