SaltEMike Talks How EVE Cargo Contracts Make SO MUCH SENSE in Star Citizen...

Here's something wild about Eve. When players make a contract for someone to haul their goods, they have the hauler put down an agreed amount of money beforehand which will be paid out if they fail to deliver. This keeps the hauler honest so that they can't just steal the goods. But sometimes the person who made the contract will ambush the hauler so they can get the payment and keep the goods!

I played EVE for several years and spent lots of time in a null-sec industrial corp. Contracts are one thing - you're 100% correct on those. But aside from those, players can buy and sell commodities in an exchange in EVE, placing buy/sell orders for specified quantities of items at specific locations, at specified prices, with escrow. If Star Citizen had that it would facilitate lots of gameplay (presupposing the desirability and scarcity of the commodities in question). And on top of that it would make a perfect first interaction point between Quanta NPCs and players - MUCH simpler than using the mission system, I would imagine. If the 'verse were a real thing, that marketplace would exist, but in the game it would be diagetic and done through a terminal or the mobiglas. I don't see such a system as being antisocial at all. And if I want to play the game 'antisocially' by your definition, why shouldn't I? Multiplayer gameplay isn't inherently better or worse than solo play. The game should have both. That org storage workaround is hilarious and ridiculous. I see no reason why orgs shouldn't have storage (hangars) at stations and LZs just like players, even if only virtual and accessed via a terminal.

Another great thing about the delivery contract system in Eve is it allows offloading logistics within your own group, for example my corp decided to do some forward deployed combat but expecting everyone to move all of their stuff and haul ammo etc was never going to happen so the more industry focused guys or people with access to jump freighters were able to make a little money doing the stuff the guys only interested in combat didn't want to. They were also able to stock replacement ships in our FOB so that those same players could have back up ships and didn't need to do the work of shipping it themselves. You create co-dependence between combat/logistics players and everyone gets to play the game they actually want to play.

Eve: wants 20.000 of x cargo, puts the contract, random guy auto loads the ship, jumps and delivers SC: puts a contract of 3000 SCU of X commodity, random guy waits 1 minute for the mission to populate, travels to the area with the commodity, waits for hangar to open, lands, walks out of a giant ship, walks into an elevator, walks again, gets into another elevator, goes upstairs, interacts with a terminal, goes back through the stairs, first and second elevator, pulls his multi tool gun, loads a battery, opens his ship door, starts loading 100 boxes one by one, 2h and 20 batteries later is ready to leave, opens the hangar doors, slowly moves 2 meters out, detonates exiting the hangar, fails mission, gets negative rep and a bounty Dummo man, it seems like 2 very different experiences and needs lol

Trade, Base/Station construction, Territorial control, & highly customizable ship equipment...these aren't Eve things...they're just good things for any game.

The Eve Online Economy is my Gold Standard for economic simulations.

Even Elite has a decent cargo loop. 12 years in and yet here we are

Eve's Contract system is amazing. I once took a contract to haul 440k m3 of Quafe - Quafe is a goddamn soda. I filled a freighter with soda, and delivered it to this random dude. I have no idea why he wanted it, why he wanted so much of it, or why the hell he couldn't just get it himself. But he paid me big money for it. I hope we get player "orders" like that in SC, once Base Building/Crafting is in.

Eves Player Economy is fantastic. I would also like community goals from E:D, where everyone would either have to assist with cargo, or combat missions in order to complete a goal. For instance, in order to have a new space station built, players would have to clear the area of alien or pirate threats. The space truckers would then have to bring all the necessary materials. Then personnel transporters would bring the workers from different systems. These goals would last for weeks at a time. There was also a loop called "Power Play" that had to do with governance in different systems.With this you were tasked with pushing your political leaders influence in their opponents systems. You could gain money, rep and unique parts for ships for these actions. These are a couple of the many features that i would love to come to S.C. From E:D. Please become the perfect game. Copium dreams.

EVE doesn't need Quantum, the shops in SC could serve as a market, players drop off items, set the price, the cheapest will sell, supply and demand will do the rest. Also In EVE, war consumes resources and assets, players craft, transporters move production, But they don't fight for nothing, it's because they defend territories (and not to make battle videos with 100 players) also you can pay for the game subscription with the game currency, so we can convert the game money into dollars and calculate the real cost.

If SC managed to have an economy 1/4 the depth of EVE, I would be thrilled. That's one of the aspects that always keeps me coming back to EVE, just how intertwined the whole world is, be it resources, players, and roles. You said it perfectly "in EVE that material turns into something, in SC it turns into nothing"

I agree this is something Eve does well but also org rep and communication in game though text basically imagine if spectrum was available in game but you can mark individuals or other orgs as hostile which they then will show up on radar as such by default.

There was a game called "Gun of Icarus" back in like 2012/2014. It had the best ship crew mechanics I've ever played. I really want them to introduce some sort of mechanics like that game has to repair ships and damage.

You know how to kick-start the economy in SC. Make missiles consumables, not just free reloaded for a tiny cost. Make fuel types and create SF delivery missions. Stuff like this.

A small aside on eve hauling contracts, the player could tell you or not tell you how much the cargo is worth. You only actually know the m3 unless you open it or scan it, but most contracts come with a deposit so if you fail the contract, the hauler pays out however much. Most hi security freight haulers won’t take a contract for over a billion worth of stuff at a time or so because that’s about the line where it becomes profitable to suicide gank a freighter in hisec. For packages that must be worth more than a billion there are alternate shipping methods but usually fetch a higher price for the hauling because they’re riskier or require jump freighters that can use a jump drive to jump past risky gates or whatever. But at no point does the shipper have to disclose the value of the items being shipped

I've been preaching this to you man for years on your vids lol. Cargo missions are what needs to happen and the way they have a "if you open it/steal it/get blown up" you get billed whatever the value set by the contract creator of the contract.

A lot of what you are talking about work in EVE because it is a fully player driven economy as you rightly point out. There is other parts of EVE which would translate even better to SC, a good example would be insurance, a fairly simple system which works perfectly and IMO would also work as well in SC. EVE also allows contracts to be either public or private and when you haul cargo for/to someone, at the destination the package is dropped in the receiver's hangar automatically. And I could see that work once our hangars come into the game in SC too. I do not agree that doing things on your time is "anti social or a-social" at all. Running a contract for someone is still an interaction between players. Someone needing guns could put up a contract for it or offer you a contract to deliver.

Many an hour spent hauling in EVE. Great vid that I hope the Economy Devs take note of. Like housing and resource gathering/crafting in Star Wars Galaxies the market system in EVE has a lot to offer.

When it comes to EvE you have to consider that most players will have two characters. While few people would want to haul goods from one place to another, those that do can make great money in game by doing it. There are things that are easier with n+1; if it can be done with an second, third or tenth character it will be done. Lighting a cyno in a random system that you just want to go to and come back again is easier with a cyno alt. No interaction required, get there get it done come back again. Would you want to see that in Star Citizen? Can you run two instances of different accounts at the same time? If there are too many things in Star Citizen that must be done in a group it can severely limit the enjoyment factor of those who aren't social, or can't commit to playing in a regular time zone for a regular amount of time. Those working shifts may find it difficult to team up with the same people and surely working with the same group means it's smoother as people find their groove & their niche. The other factor is that there are currently no character skills in Star Citizen so everything is based on the players ability, determination and willingness to learn, practice and excel. I don't know if player skills are going to be in the game at some point in order to reward player commitment, perhaps there should be otherwise it's buffs via armour, helmets and gadgets which can be used by anyone if they have the in game wealth, or real money for the perma-item.

Totally agree. I joined Star Citizen in 2014 in hopes it will eventually have Player Contracts and Buy/Sell orders for market. But I understand that we need other features and star systems first. Great video!