Episode 98: Paul Kingsnorth & Tom Holland: Myths, Saints, & History, the Bible & Life After Progress

Please get these two gentlemen for a round 2 conversation!

I could listen to these two talk for hours. I struggle with being secular, resistant but still crawling towards Christianity

So glad "The Rest is History" made Tom get some decent sound equipment. :)

Really good discussion. I found myself tearing up listening to Tom's heartfelt questions to Paul about taking that next step, that leap. So often, talks turn to theology and get into the weeds, but my favorite is hearing the story of the mystical ways we are pursued by the Great Lover of mankind. We run, but He won't let the lost sheep get away, glory to God.

Exactly why the East and West need to reunite. Head (logos) and heart (caritas) together.

"Gold star on this convo. One of the best I've heard in a long time (and I listen to A LOT of convos...). Don't miss it!" - Paul Vander Klay The man has spoken. :)

Listening to this again and it's fascinating to hear Tom almost surrender to it, leaning over the edge, nearly falling in...

Oh I really love this conversation!

What I find absolutely fascinating in Orthodox Christianity is exactly what I sense in this conversation as well. To be a Christian does not imply that one has to have all the answers. Rather like Job, it is enough having confidence in God's mysterious paths, and feeling an awe along the way.

Super excited about this one!

Thanks for bringing another gem of a discussion, Marcas. Just to say...the book titles that pop up in your videos are very helpful. And I find the notion that you may have actually read them all pretty intense!

Dominion was important on my journey too, I’ve found that it continually deepens my sense of gratitude.

Sorry for not having the exact citation, but from St. John of the Cross, "God refuses to be known by the intellect. God only allows himself to be loved by the heart." He is patient with us and waits for us to start the conversation.

The quote from Martin Shaw that Paul gives near the end was absolutely brilliant: “When I converted to Orthodox Christianity I realised I’d actually been a Christian all my life but just never realised it”. This is really brilliant and spot on and something I could relate to (I am also on the path to orthodoxy).

What a pair of fine blokes... God bless England, Henry and Saint George!!

I was only telling friends of mine about Paul Kingsnorth and John Moriarty last night ! Martin Shaw and Paul show up in my timeline this morning. Synchronicity? Tom Holland is excellent also. Thanks.

Another EXCELLENT one! Thanks, Marcus.

Two great observers and writers of our current time and past times. That comment from you, Mr. Holland, about the 60's being our rejection of the idea of our original sin really resonated with me. I know that accords with Kingsnorth's view that we basically reject all limits now. I would really look forward to a book on the 60's from you Mr. Holland (I read Dominion and also gave it to both of my "secular" nieces for Christmas). Paul, I'm a Substack subscriber to you and your writing and story have meant so much to me. Thank you to both of you, and thank you Marcus for bringing these 2 men together for us.

If I could say one thing to Tom Holland it would be this: “Put aside your fears and anxieties about those who were born before Christ or who have been born into non-Christian environments. It’s admirable that you are concerned, but, if you are a Christian, or want to be one, one of the things that that means is having a complete belief and faith in Christ, that He knows what He is doing, and that He has a plan for all those people as well. You just need to do your bit, have faith, carry your cross etc. He will do the rest!”

This was delightful, delicious even... with a touch of sadness. May the Lord, the tender and mighty hunter-shepherd call out to Tom and may he hear that voice loud and clear! Thank you guys!