Alfa Romeo And The Myth of Russian Steel - The Real Reason Alfas Rust

Franklin Roosevelt the president died in 1945. I think you got the wrong Roosevelt. Otherwise another very interesting video.

My father, a steel merchant in the 1950s, 60s and 70s, was often talking about the steel cookers adding scrap metal, recycled steel, to their mix. He explained to me, not that I was all that interested, that most of the problems with rusting cars would occur because of problems related to the "pickling" and subsequent processes but not indicative of inherently poor steel quality.

Having owned 3 Alfas and also a FIAT over the years I’ve had to put up with more than my fair share of Italian car rust and reliability jibes. Fact of the matter is that modern Italian cars don’t rust at any faster rate than any other. The facts that pub bores always conveniently forget is that during the 70s, the supposed bullet-proof VWs, Fords and most Japanese cars were also rot boxes.

In late 70’s, cars serviced at my garage were all rot boxes. Except one. A Lada Niva!!! Yes it had some surface rust but nothing like the rest.

Aah, that's been a satisfying video to watch, as I've been fighting my own personal battle against the "soviet steel" legend for a while now. Very good research Jack, well done!

If you're of a certain age, one of your rights of passage, was the Isopon filler & spray can paint 'apprenticeship, whatever car you owned'! Thanks Jack🙏

Thinking back to MOT testing in the 1980's, the most common rot boxes were seventies Escorts and Cortinas that would be beyond repair at 8-9 years old. Minis were rubbish, early Golfs pretty poor but surprisingly, the dear old Allegro would rarely fail on rot. Alfasuds normally failed on the circular jacking points on the four corners of the floor and the inner wings where the outer wings bolted on, assuming there was still enough of a wing left. Bodywise they were shite and the Sprint version was even worse. They were also very inconsistent - I used to test a bright yellow 1979 saloon that even after seven or eight years was still in good condition. Another Sprint actually broke its back when it was jacked up. A split in the front chassis rail opened up and the front wing separated from the rest of it as the inner wing/strut top area caved in. It failed of course. :-) More recently I've seen a couple of 159's that are as rusty as an old horseshoe underneath. I don't recall ever seeing a rusty 75 or 164 but they were built in Milan with rather more care.

There are many reasons italian cars of the 60's 70's and 80's and even before that as well rusted like crazy. The list can be long, and explanations likewise. The story of Russian metal is widely spread and often mentioned, but it wasn't just the Russians. All manufacturers suffered more or less the same problems, WHY? (I remember looking at my friends 1984 Ferrari 308, and it had rust in its fenders around that little round blinker in 1987. I was appalled that a Ferrari could rust, but he just replied it's a used car, all used cars rust... Well getting into the 60's rationing of goods were finally lifted, and demand for materials skyrocketed. Steel Mills where producing as much as they could. I have heard from a metallurgist that in order to make "steel" less prone to rusting, a good portion of it needs to be recycled metal that has fifnished it's propensity to oxydization. But also the content of different metals to create the best mix, like Chromium, Molybden, Cobalt, Zinc, and other metals weren't all that well developed. We have done quantum leaps since the 80's, but that's only part of the answer. Metallurgic advancements are important, but also the manufacturing process. The design was done on paper by hand, and not by computers. The manufacturing of parts was done the cheapest way like today, but involved metal bending as well as stamping. Some of these processes meant that some of the metal was thinner in some places and thicker in other. Then it was the little helping parts that were added in order to make it possible to weld them togehter. All these little areas of butressing created pockets that were impossible to reach with rustproofing once welded up, but water eventually found it's way and then the car was lost to the steel worms gnawing from the inside out. And paint was bad, rusting all by itself. Now we have acrylic paints that also have been improved, but also doesn't rust like the old paints that oxidized and rusted. Today all is CAD and these "helper pieces" are no longer necessary since glue is being used instead, and the pieces are stamped out as an integral part instead of being welded. So weak areas of welding that were extra prone to rusting are gone in most cars (not all, and these cars rust more). Rememeber welding areas/seams that rusted first? Also you had lemons, some call them monday cars or lunctime cars etc. This is because much was made by hand - remember human intervention? Well humas forget, robots don't. So today all cars from one process are either good or bad. Mostly good since bad processes show up more easily. Metal thickness is more even, preparation is more even, rustproofing is more even, paint has the same thickness and so on. Add everything up, and there you have it. It's called progress. BTW I used to own an Alfa in the form of 1979 Alfetta 1.6 in a subtle red color that tends toward burgundy (it was a different name), but beautiful on that car. I got it in 1984 and it was badly rusted in the usual places (door bottoms). It had so much rust in the front subframe and steering gear that the previous owner had welded the dampers in place !!! But fond memories. Someone had tuned the engine to the max with oversized DellOrto's, triple valve-springs and a full exhaust from Ansa that ensured it sounded like a race car. It went like one as well. The redline was well beyond 10k and the needle just swung around and pegged against the stop. It sounded glorious and went like stink. It scared most people but I remeber it fondly for how it went, and how much space it had inside. Alfa knew how to exploit available space. HUUUUGE trunk, and extremely roomey inside the cabin, way beyond what the dimensions would call for (why don't they build cars like that anymore? Fun engine, fun capacities, and lots of space. Maybe my memory serves me wrong here...) I would like to attach a list of Italiano sport car manufacturing that I found while seaching the problem that may be entertaining. The Six Laws of Italian Sports Cars 1) THE LAW OF PLEASING DESIGN WHERE IT REALLY DOESN’T MATTER “The inside of cam covers or other relatively innocuous areas, shall be laced with buttresses, cross-bracing and all manner of esoteric stiffness-with-lightness design, while something like connecting rods shall self-destruct at redline plus 1 rpm due to a basic lack of strength.” An example of this Law is the stunningly beautiful Lamborghini or Ferrari V12s of the late 1960s. They were famous for wearing out all four camshafts in 10,000 miles or less. The cam’s metal appeared to be recycled coathangers, which coincidentally are still in short supply in Italy. 2) THE LAW OF NON-FUNCTIONAL APPARATUS “All Italian Sports Cars, regardless of age, shall have at least one system or component which does not work, and cannot be repaired. Such a part shall never be mentioned in the Official Shop Manual, although there may be an out-of-focus picture shown.” It goes without saying that such parts should never under any circumstances be removed, lest the natural balance of the car be upset. 3) THE LAW OF ELECTRICAL CHAOS “All Italian Sports Cars shall be wired at the Factory by a cross-eyed, colour-blind worker, using whatever supplies are within reach. All wires shall change colour-code at least once between energy source and component. All grounds shall be partially insulated.” This tends to guarantee that the owner of such vehicles will eventually be intimately familiar with its electrical system, since he will need to trace out each wire, then rewrite his Official Schematic, which will differ from all others in at least one area. 4) THE LAW OF PERSONAL ABUSE “The more an Italian car breaks down, the more endearing it becomes to its increasingly irrational owner.” For example, you purchase an Italian Sports car, for all the money you ever hoped to earn, and receive a ticket for air pollution on the way home from the dealer due to the vast clouds of smoke that follow you. Several return trips to said dealer, accompanied by your rapidly dwindling cash reserves, cures the smoking. But now, the engine sounds like a food processor full of ball-bearings. After replacing every component in the car, including the radio speakers, the noise vanishes and is replaced by an odour reminiscent of a major fire in a goat-hair mattress factory. You still keep trying, God help you. 5) THE LAW OF UNAVAILABLE PARTS “All parts of an Italian sports car shall be made of a material that is available in inverse proportion to its operating half-life.” Thus, the speedometer hold-down screws are made of grade 8 cold rolled steel, while the valves are of fabricated Unobtanium, made only at midnight by an old man with a pointy hat covered with moons and stars. Such parts will be backordered during the design phase of the car, and will remain so forever. Bribes, pleading and threats will be ignored. 6) THE LAW OF CRYPTIC INSTRUCTIONS “Any official publications dealing with repair, maintenance or operations of an Italian sports car shall be written such that every fourth word is incomprehensible to the average owner. In the event that a random sentence is understandable, the information contained therein shall be wrong.” This is also known as flat-tyre English, where a sentence flows along nicely, then – Kaboom!

Very interesting car production history, Jack. And it's right on the spot what I have heard. The late father of a close friend of mine was head of the Austrian Alfa Romeo importing company. He told me that because the paint shop in Pomigliano d'Arco was often out of service, due to strikes or other reasons, the raw Alfasud bodies were stored outside and often without any protection and were subject to weather. And note: Pomigliano d'Arco is close to Napoli and Napoli is on the Calabrian coast. So there is always a little bit of salt in the air's vapor.

Very interesting mate. It is amazing how many of these type of myths are bandied around.

My father bought a Fiat 124 Sport Coupe (AC version) in 1969. Here in Canada where snow abounds and salt is used with great abandon, the poor beautiful car lasted about 3 years before it was a rusted through mess, even with dealer applied rustproofing, although mechanically it was perfect. In reality, most other brands of cars here suffered the same fate, but it usually took a few years longer. My mother, being a firm believer in customer service wrote multiple sternly worded letters to the Fiat Canada head office, which was conveniently located not 4 miles from our house, about the disappointment in the corrosive abilities of the car over several years. Finally tiring of the constant communiques from Mum, when a representative from the Fiat head office in Italy was visiting, he was sent to our house to inspect the car. He agreed, with my mothers beady eye glaring at him, that it was indeed not acceptable. A deal was then made that they would offer full trade in value for the car provided they purchase another brand new Fiat. They then purchased another 124 Coupe, a 1975 model (CC version), which ran beautifully for 10 years and over 100,000 miles with no real corrosion, 7 years with them, and 3 years as my first foray into car ownership. While I owned it, I decided to purchase a 1973 Alfa Spider, which while looking great, hid a huge amount of rot. A fresh coat of paint hid it beautifully. I agree that while most all cars rusted in those years, Italian vehicles really took the trophy in spectacular fashion. I do think that the cause of it was a terrible workforce, with apathetic concerns of build quality, and all the other things mentioned about the workers.

A friend of mine had am Alfasud in the late 70's. It was a lovely car and really sporty compared to the offerings available from other manufacturers at that time. I remember a large rust spot breaking out in the middle of the roof, not where you expect rust to start, it appears the rust was built in from new.

Thank you for another very interesting video Jack. As a child, growing up in both the UK and Germany, I can confirm that the German cars of that time were indeed just as bad as anything else in the rust department. The two biggest culprits were BMW and Opel. Merc were a close second. My family had a Fiat dealership amongst its members. I can clearly remember my cousin showing my father rotten German coachwork in the body shop. Those were the days. Another large contributor were the many built in water traps to be found in areas of the body containing areas of multilayers of steel welded together eg. scuttle-wing-A pillar. All this in no way stops me adoring Lancia, Abarth (olde) and Fiat. Just love 'em and get on with them very well indeed. Bw Mike.

Thank you so, so much for having researched this and corrected the record, Jack. Jay Emm’s response when I pulled him up on this was underwhelming, to say the least. Thanks, too, to Chris; it seems that his book informed a lot of your work. I’ll be sharing this video to my Club Motori Italia mates and amongst the X1/9 and 128 communities.

Great vid Jack... it's not often a youTuber not only listens to their subscribers [like me and Chris] but then carries out a lot of research to self correct and does a vid to set the record straight. Massive kudos to you sir !

Soviet steel had less carbon and nickel in its composition, and this can speed up the oxidation process. But the biggest problem for Alfa's south Italy factory of those times, was the storage of the steel sheets outside/outdoor before they were pressed, and the poor anti-corrosive protection associated with the painting scheme, at the level of the primer layer (and the incorporation of zinc as a constituent), and other anti-corrosive compounds on the chassis, before painting. This problem was also common on Fiat 127, 128, not only on this Alfa-Romeo model, and also on some Lancias. Do not compare this, in general, with the German and Swedish standards, saying that they also suffered from the same problem, in the same way. That's not true, and it's already a subject known to everyone who knows the reality of the European automotive industry since the '60s.

I purchased a new Fiat 850 In Wolverhampton in 1968. It lasted 2 winters before the whole floorpan had to be fully re-welded. My cousin had purchased a similar vehicle in Milan which did not rust for 10 years. I can tell you the reason, and it's not Russian steel. The West Midlands salted their roads so heavily that ALL cars at that time rusted away. In the 1980s my Alfa Sud showed signs of rust after 3 years. But subsequent Alfas and Fiats that I owned showed no signs of rusting in SW England. I conclude that SALT played a major role in rusting for cars not prepared or galvanised for this British practice. In Italy, snow chains and winter tyres have been long-used in winter, instead of salt.

In the mid 70’s, my older brother worked as a mechanic at a MG/Fiat/Lancia/Jaguar new car dealership in central Illinois. The Fiats needed rust repair immediately after delivery to the dealer, before they could be placed on show room floor. Apparently, the sea voyage allowed lots of sea water exposure.

Jack, I've owned a few Alfas, and whilst I acknowledge that Suds did sometimes rust in the center of panels for no apparent reason, their rust was always worst in cavities that Alfa had filled with a porous spay foam. The foam acted like a sponge, and ensured that the panel that it was supposed to protect always remained wet, thereby promoting rust. I was hoping that you were going to tell us the story behind the introduction of the foam.

My dad would disagree that Italian cars were no worse than others in the 70s. He had several brand new fiats that simply dissolved despite his best efforts with waxpyl. Rust would break out in the middle of a panel for no obvious reason. They were truly shocking and far worse than BL or ford of the same era.